Dawn of War 3

[Ristiald]

So, probably everyone already saw this.


There's a gameplay footage released now.

[Farseer Amathar]

I had heard of Dawn of War 3, but haven't done anything to look into it, yet.  I've been a bit anxious, as I was under the impression that when THQ went under, they took Dawn of War's developer with it.  Apparently I was wrong, as it appears Relic is still around and still working on Dawn of War.  That gives me a little bit of confidence, but now I'm even more curious as to where the story is going.  Where do you go after the Aurellian Crusade?  Isn't Gabriel Angelos "More machine than man" as certain monks from other sci-fi might put it?  My last real criticism is both a positive and a negative in my view: the pitched battles remind me more of Dawn of War 1, while the special attacks remind me of Dawn of War 2.  The special attacks were fun, but it was the cover mechanics of the game that really made DoW2 more appealing to me, as that helped to feel like the tabletop game.

Finally, as a Farseer I have to say this: Those poor Eldar!  Why not beat up on some Orks?!  We got to see three factions in the premier video, we know you can fight some Orks as well!  That's it, I'm going to have to go take a million human lives for every Eldar life they just took.  Expect a few human worlds to be destroyed sometime soon, in retaliation.

[Ristiald]

"In vengance, I shall have no mercy"
Well, Sega is a big studio and with GW throwing the licenses as they are I expected eventually fot one to hit one of big studios. I'm just glad DoW license was still around to be sold to them.

[Farseer Amathar]

As far as I'm aware, Sega either bought up Relic so they could get Dawn of War or Relic still had the license and just needed to team up with another producer to actually make and market the physical disks and boxes.

P.S. Something similar to a producer buying out a developer and getting to scalp all of their IP rights happened to another one of my more favorite sci-fi and fantasy settings: Shadowrun. When their video-game spin-off developer got bought out by Microsoft, Microsoft developers gained the rights to make a Shadowrun Video game and crapped out a really bad one that had none of the actual feel or setting in their crappy spin-off game. Oh, and no Orcs (the most common meta-human type) either. I avoided it like it was a Devil Rat with VITAS or maybe a door-to-door Universal Brotherhood Proselytizer.

[Ristiald]

A'propos Shadowruns:
CD Projekt RED is doing C-punk...
Ok, not really related, but came to mind.

[Farseer Amathar]

There is a Steam Shadowrun Game that came out a few years ago that looks much better, though I still have yet to purchase it. I will... eventually. There was also an awesome SNES game that, despite being an SNES RPG was about as true to the Pen and Paper RPG as you can imagine.

Okay, enough digressing (from me, anybody else can add anything in). So it's cool to see full-sized squads in Dawn of War 3, as the limited squad size in DoW2 was... interesting and perhaps a little bit frustrating. It was a balance issue (back in DoW2), I believe Guard still had ten-man squads, but Space Marines had 3 or 4-man squads to be roughly on par. Now it would be interesting to see a cover system that only reduces damage from certain kinds of weapons. If this were the case, than perhaps the reason we see pitched battles in the gameplay trailer (especially from Space Marines) is the cover cannot give them a better save than they already have, which is about as true to the tabletop as you can imagine. But I doubt it.

[Ristiald]

Well, with the basebuilding and codex squads I hope this will be better.
I also hope they will let moding community in, and Ultimate Apocalypse for first DoW will eventually turn up here too. Or anything of Closer to Codex series.

[Farseer Amathar]

Maybe this is me and because I don't play a lot of RTS' any more... but why is base-building so important to an RTS? I don't mind it, but the break away from it and to focus solely on maneuvering and fighting with your units was part of the appeal to DoW2 (though below most other appeals of the game, to be honest).

As for hoping they let in modders. Me too, although I did find a few DoW2 Mods, they weren't very common. It seems a growing trend in a lot of video games lately, to refuse any help to modders. Which is sad, as I understand it, many of these Modders will be the first ones to patch broken PC Games, even before the companies. In some extremely sad cases, they will be the only ones to fix it.

[Ristiald]

I guess because people got used to it. Because deciding on the composition of your army on the fly, instead of fighting with only what you brought has became a standard in RTS genre.

[Farseer Amathar]

From what I used to watch and was told by my Dark Eldar playing friend (who loves and plays a lot of RTS'), most people who do play them regularly have a plan and already know roughly what they are going to bring, what they need to build to bring those units and the order of the base and units in which to build. As for the single, upgradable building in DoW2, I don't think I ever had a plan on what I was bringing except to throw in some Banshees. They may suck on tabletop, but I still love bringing my Banshees.

[Ristiald]

Banshees were always better in RTS than in turn based TT, since you can actually distract people with other units, and let Banshees play their strenghts.

[Farseer Amathar]

You never played early edition tabletop then. Banshees, Daemon Packs and Genestealers were god-mod in like 3rd or 4th edition (I can't remember which). There was a rule, at the time, that if you slaughtered a unit in melee and you managed to consolidate to within an inch of another enemy squad, you just started a new melee round immediately. Banshees had their masks and power weapons (that were ap 2 at the time) and would just wreck squad after a squad. It was the bane of Guard and Tau everywhere. Once one unit in your line got assaulted, your entire line could crumple. Since they've never regained that power, people look down on them. Also, you run your melee squad as support of another Eldar Unit. When your more important unit (perhaps holding a contestable objective) gets assaulted, you counter-assault with your Banshees to clear them off. Works like a charm, if you can pull it off well.

[Ristiald]

Yeah, unfortunately I started playing in 5 ed, when they were already nerfed.
I did played through lances and Fish of Fury times though, so I know what happens when something "works like a charm"... :/

Anyway, what I mean is that RTS' are different than TTs, so units that might be awesome in one sometimes suck in other. Banshees are one of those examples.

[Farseer Amathar]

Oh no doubt. It's also why the Eldar usually only have half of their aspects. Many of their aspects (In my opinion) fulfill slightly different roles, but have overlap. The most readily-available example to me is Banshees vs Scorpions. In my opinion, with their power weapons and initiative-steal, the Banshees are anti heavy-infantry, while the Striking Scorpions are anti light-infantry. However, both are usually just classified as melee and only one make it into an RTS.

[Ristiald]

Yup. That's a problem with RTSes.
But then again, since you can change your army composition on the fly, there's really no need for such fine tuning we have when all you brought is all you have, as in TTs.

[Farseer Amathar]

Yeah, that is a plus. At the same time, the... iron-caste method of being required makes you learn how to use certain units. Forces you to test things out and take chances and perhaps discover a strength you never knew existed. However, I do just love the ability to "rebuild" a squad if you mess up or even just switch what you're bringing on the fly. (Oh Crap! Quick, bring some Wraithguard!) Don't get me wrong, I enjoy RTS' (as I've said before, I enjoy all video games, just tend to favor some types over others and even the types I'm most harsh [driving simulators and fighting games usually] on I'm not against playing, and even enjoy).

However, my hands-down favorite part of the Dawn of War Games (all of them) are the quotes. I still use, "Sanity is for the weak!" "The patient hunter gets the prey," "We exist to avenge our sisters," and a few others. The one thing I'm confident that Dawn of War 3 will do well is the unit-quotes.

[Ristiald]

Yeah, Dawn of War franchise made some awesome quotes, and created some awesome heroes... and villians.
We'll see if the trend continues.

[Farseer Amathar]

Oh you know Eliphas has to get at least one reference, if not a full-on appearance. I wonder who they're going to put in a Dreadnought to give a personality this time? Hard to say, all of their Dawn of War 2 characters I enjoyed. Even Avitus who grated on me in-game, I look back with fondness for his overtly being Khornate and claiming to be loyal. Okay, the Khornate Psyker that was Azariah Kyras still bothers me. Oh! And they killed off the (only?) black space marine! I was offended! Jonah Orion was awesome!

[Ristiald]

All of those are nice, but I doubt they will include much of those... Although I do hope, as you do.

Anyways, Archie has commented on E3 DoW3 gameplay

[Farseer Amathar]

At the very least, we'll get an off-handed remark about the official ending to Dawn of War 2: Retribution. I've taken the stand that most endings are simultaneously cannon. Obviously not the Chaos and Tyranid Campaign endings, as those all end in complete distruction. I believe that Bluddflagg got his hat and escaped. That the Eldar got Taldeer's Soulstone and escaped. That the Blood Ravens survived and Gabriel Angelos selected as their new Chapter Master. And the Imperial Guard were able to help the Inquisitor halt the exterminatus. I also suspect that Elphas did... something... to ascend to daemonhood, as if not he runs the risk of falling into Abbadon's territory of 'successful.' At the very least, I suspect he killed Davian Thule (as implied in the Chaos first mission).

Thank you. Added to my list of things to watch later.

[Ristiald]

This is really a complicated and opinion based question, but as a general rule- I don't really care what's the cannonical ending, as long as I have one, that's logical and overall approved.

[Farseer Amathar]

Yeah. Though I'm still sad to see Lukas Alexander die... the purging of Mugaloth Bay (sp?) was well-told by Avitus.

I ended up playing a lot of Dawn of War 2, so I remember the campaigns better. After a number of times playing through every faction, the above theory was the conclusion I came to. I'm probably horribly wrong, but if I'm right... somebody owes me a drink, despite no bets being made.

[Ristiald]

I'm not gonna stand between you and your drink.

[Farseer Amathar]

All I'm saying is somebody needs to buy me a drink if I'm right about the outcome to DoW2...

On a side note, I'd like to note I'm glad to finally see Dire Avengers. While I love my (one, half-sized) Guardian Squad, I field my Dire Avengers far more often, to the point that (pending actual names) Gold Squad and Red Squad compete for kills in the TT games I play.

[Ristiald]

I'm stuck with giving my squad numbers.

[Sponsored content]